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anybody have predictions for tonight??

Clintwood has some key players that are gametime decisions so I'm not going to make a prediction on that game yet. As for Coeburn/Burton I look for at least a 20 point win for the Knights. Burton can't play defense and Coeburn's offense can be very explosive. In the first winner's bracket game I see Kelly by 5 over Pound. The Cats might have a chance if they can slow down Evan Bolling. The night cap should be the best game of the tournament. If Castlewood can keep Grundy off the boards and continue to hit outside shots they should win this one. I'm saying Castlewood by 3.

Coeburn should dominate JI Burton. Wise/Pound will be a much more evenly matched game.

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I'm going to watch both the Coeburn/Burton and Kelly/Pound games. Not really interested in the other two all that much--plus I can't make it over for the early one.

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I don't think any team could just "roll over" Grundy at this point.

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I think Castlewood rolls over Grundy, for what it's worth.

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That's what I'm saying cvcgrad...Grundy's a wrestling school, not a basketball school. They've got some big ole agile guys who can throw elbows with the best of them. And they got by with it in the first half...but not in the 2nd. That's why you saw 2 technicals called in that game against Grundy. The ball-fake T that was called on Hollyfield for Coeburn was BS. That happens every ballgame, and the only reason why it was called was the atmosphere of the game. There were several threatened elbows and ball fakes to the face thrown by #'s 44 and 24 in particular on Grundy...no technicals on them. If not for the outside shooting (and several uncalled travels and walks) done by #'s 12, 10, and 20 for Grundy last night, we may as well have lined up and played 4 quarters of football. Either that or had a steel cage death match.

That being said Grundy's a collection of athletes playing basketball...there's a difference between being that and being a basketball team. Just so happens that the athletes won out last night b/c of Coeburn starting off slow.

The ref gave him a T because he hit the defender in the head with the ball. I know he probably didn't mean to do it but that's the rule.

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The ref gave him a T because he hit the defender in the head with the ball. I know he probably didn't mean to do it but that's the rule.

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Yeah I know...but even the threat of it is supposed to be a T...and there were several times it wasn't called. Pretty weak call...regardless of rule. I mean, the way you're talking--if that crew last night had to enforce every rule strictly like that...then what happened to the first half???

You make a good point. If those other 2 T's hadn't been called on Grundy the ref probably would have overlooked it.

I think you're under-estimating Grundy. Yes, they have some big, strong, and sometimes rough players. But, that's not such a bad thing, when you can keep it in check. Just like Council, they are very intense and set the pace for the game. In my opinion, the best teams are the ones who set the pace and make the other teams play their game.

I'm not saying that Grundy is the best team out there by any means. But, they definitely impressed me. Honestly, I was expecting Coeburn to blow them out of the water. But, I don't think these are just a bunch of "wrestling" kids or off-season football players who happen to get lucky in a basketball game. They have great agility and were making excellent passes and executing their offensive plays very well.

As far as the technicals that were called, I think they absolutely deserved them. I disagree with you on the unsportsmanlike foul that was called on Coeburn. The kid should have been ejected from the game. It doesn't matter which team he plays for. There is no excuse for it. Coeburn has way too much talent and skill to resort to something like that. Most probably won't agree with me, but that's my opinion for what it's worth.

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That's what I'm saying cvcgrad...Grundy's a wrestling school, not a basketball school. They've got some big ole agile guys who can throw elbows with the best of them. And they got by with it in the first half...but not in the 2nd. That's why you saw 2 technicals called in that game against Grundy. The ball-fake T that was called on Hollyfield for Coeburn was BS. That happens every ballgame, and the only reason why it was called was the atmosphere of the game. There were several threatened elbows and ball fakes to the face thrown by #'s 44 and 24 in particular on Grundy...no technicals on them. If not for the outside shooting (and several uncalled travels and walks) done by #'s 12, 10, and 20 for Grundy last night, we may as well have lined up and played 4 quarters of football. Either that or had a steel cage death match.

That being said Grundy's a collection of athletes playing basketball...there's a difference between being that and being a basketball team. Just so happens that the athletes won out last night b/c of Coeburn starting off slow.

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The kid should have been ejected from the game. It doesn't matter which team he plays for. There is no excuse for it. Coeburn has way too much talent and skill to resort to something like that.

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When about 5 different kids do the same ball fake in the games tonight, you stand right up and tell the refs that the kid resorted to dirty tactics and should be tossed. They'll laugh at you. If not for the way that game was going, technicals and high emotions...that sort of play would have went w/o a peep from the whistle of a referee. It happens all the time and is never called, except then. It wasn't a dirty tactic, it was a ball fake gone wrong. If he would have wanted to hurt the kid he could have hauled off and thrown it in the kid's face...that would have been dirty. Besides I'd rather have somebody ball fake off my head than throw an elbow or headbutt me like some of those kids (#30 in particular) were doing last night. Grundy impressed me last night too--their offensive line blocked good. Their fullback was tough with the ball between the tackles and they executed their run schemes well... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Oh come on man call it like it is!

I had probably one of the best seats in the house, and I was watching the kid. The expression on his face told the story. It wasn't "why are they calling the foul on me", it was "oh sh*t I just got caught." Coeburn was frustrated and the kid let his temper get the best of him.

I've watched way more games than anybody with any sense should ever watch. I've seen some of the most ridiculous calls made by refs - including a foul called on a player who was sitting on the bench at the time. But, this was unsportsmanlike and it was deserved.

Grundy deserved every foul that was called on them because they let their agression get out of check. So be it. But, fair is fair. That particular call against Coeburn was deserved.

I stand by what I said. Coeburn is an excellent team, and when they play with their heads and not their emotions, they can play and maybe beat any team in the district. It was a unsportsmanlike move, it was uncalled for, and the team is way too good to resort to stuff like that.

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When about 5 different kids do the same ball fake in the games tonight, you stand right up and tell the refs that the kid resorted to dirty tactics and should be tossed. They'll laugh at you. If not for the way that game was going, technicals and high emotions...that sort of play would have went w/o a peep from the whistle of a referee. It happens all the time and is never called, except then. It wasn't a dirty tactic, it was a ball fake gone wrong. If he would have wanted to hurt the kid he could have hauled off and thrown it in the kid's face...that would have been dirty. Besides I'd rather have somebody ball fake off my head than throw an elbow or headbutt me like some of those kids (#30 in particular) were doing last night. Grundy impressed me last night too--their offensive line blocked good. Their fullback was tough with the ball between the tackles and they executed their run schemes well...

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Oh come on man call it like it is!

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I am. I asked Hollyfield his intentions after the game last night and he told me he was ball faking and he just came too far down with it. Wasn't trying to hurt the kid, wasn't ill-fated. It happens dude. If the kid who got that called on him said "it wasn't intentional" to me, then I don't care what ill-will you think you saw or how you read his expression. After all, it's not like all of those threatened elbows or ball fakes to the face, closely followed by a walk or travel, by Grundy got called all that much.

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But, this was unsportsmanlike and it was deserved.

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If you truly and really feel that way, when you watch these games tonight--as I said...it will happen at least 4-5 times through these 4 games tonight...I'll be waiting for you to stand up for the kid that just got accidentally hit in the head with a ball on a ball fake, and tell the refs to toss the other kid, and get in that kids face and tell him how unsportsmanlike and dirty of a player he is. Like I said, I'll be there waiting to hear that voice stand up and tell the officials to call it all the time by the letter of the law. There's just some things that are called in the heat of a game like that that are rarely called...and it happens...I've seen plenty of basketball myself...I'm driving an hour and a half to come see these games tonight. I'm not angry that it got called--I'm saying why it did get called...that's what you disagree with me about. I think it was weak and a matter of circumstance &amp; flow of the game that it got called...otherwise it would have been by passed and no call made.

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I stand by what I said. Coeburn is an excellent team, and when they play with their heads and not their emotions, they can play and maybe beat any team in the district. It was a unsportsmanlike move, it was uncalled for, and the team is way too good to resort to stuff like that.

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I appreciate your critique of Coeburn and thinking they're an excellent team. That's great and I'm thankful. I also support you standing by what you said, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you on it dude--I'm not using bias or assumptions. I'm using what was called, what I've seen called in the years I've played/reffed/coached/watched basketball, and I'm using Hollyfield's direct words to me. If you want to rely on your assumptions from the stands instead of actually inquiring into what transpired...go ahead. Stand by it with all you've got. I just don't appreciate the implication that he was trying to knock the kid's head off with the ball, when they were throwing elbows at our heads, shoulders in our chest, and trying to headbutt us down low.

Looks like you need to "call it like it is" instead of assuming it like you want it to be.